Shiv ultimate vs Yamato ultimate

[Chijikson]

Why Shiv can't kill Yamato by ultimate? Shiv ultimate have only one thing for use - finish off other heroes, why Yamato can use ultimate with refresher twice and shiv can't finish off her? And after 1 try finishing her off you have ultimate cooldown. This resets the only target ultimate is used for.

Similar to Dota 2 Dazzle can use grave, but Axe can finish off by ultimate any heroes who have buff "Grave".

I think this is need to be fixed. We can't have a hero with complete invulnerability for dead, without a hero to counter him. It's an imbalance.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

We can, the "counter" aspects are very different and thematically don't need parity. axe ult is not a blink that crosses terrain through several walls because you got to cast it on a frame. for the longest time axe could not kill through abbadon's ult or grave. I do feel for a new game clarity is key, and unkillable means unkillable.

killing blow does serve other purposes, it does damage more than once i had to use early to get spell livesteal to give me more time with bloodletting ticking to cycle through more spells to kill someone or stay alive.

 

[Chijikson]

and unkillable means unkillable.

I same use ultimate on Shiv for give damage, but if "unkillable means unkillable" then finish off need to be mean finish off, not "give damage".

I think finish off is need to nerf by jump trough big distance, but give guaranteed kill, maybe. Anyway utimate Yamato can't be > "Finish off" Shiv

 

[mrsam1804]

one hero hard counters shivs ult, theres plenty examples of the same thing for other heroes. its normal, but being unkillable for such a long time is insane.

 

[sam.louro.monteiro]

I same use ultimate on Shiv for give damage, but if "unkillable means unkillable" then finish off need to be mean finish off, not "give damage".

I think finish off is need to nerf by jump trough big distance, but give guaranteed kill, maybe. Anyway utimate Yamato can't be > "Finish off" Shiv

the bid distance is just a fact as soon its casted you can do all the movement skills. its comming. also can make the same argument why not let her be unkillable so she can counter shiv. specially since shiv has been the best character since his release. so that argument can just go both ways.

finish off is much less obvious to what it does than unkillable.

 

[Dezvul]

Some characters hard counter others, some ults hard counter others, heck, some items hard counter a character and items are available to everybody. that's basically always how it's been in games with characters that have different mechanics.

So what if a mechanic of Yamato means it's especially difficult for Shiv to fight Yamato? Most characters can't go toe to against Shiv, by this same logic is not Shiv also a problem? Like Shiv's ult counters Abrams ult IMO, I've gone against plenty of Abrams that I've been showing can't fight Shiv, to the extent that when they're split pushing a lane, pushed up, and I show up, they just try to book it, and can't get away fast enough, they ult to get out of there and I ult to follow them regardless of whatever health percentage they have, they don't have a proper way of disengaging and they just die. Is it a problem that Abrams can't fight Shiv and can't get away from Shiv?

On the flip side, lets look at what Shiv can do to counter Yamato, buy silence glyph or curse, use that before you ult, use it right before you deal the damage that'll have you ulting them, if you're in melee range it comes out so fast they can't even react to it, if you're a bit further away and they do react to it you're forcing them to ult around 2 or 3 seconds early which is huge win against Yamato.

 

[executex]

 

[jautja]

Well, you're comparing an ult that triggers almost instantly and a second one that clearly marks itself and doesn't let the owner move. Imagine Yamato is in static and the Shiv just walks up and presses the button, and it's over.