Pocket Ult Rework/New Idea

[Shpee]

Pocket's ult needs a rework as his current ult has 2 main problems:

1. It doesn't complement Pocket's current kit, and clashes with their theme of being a "bursty" assassin that can weave in and out of fights.
   • The hero is built towards high burst and evasive maneuvers, but the current ult is an 18 second damage over time ability (even barrage, the only other non burst ability in the kit, exists to give Pocket more damage and improve their burst potential)

1. Pocket's ult is mostly a tool for life-steal and heal suppression (according to pocket mains and high level streamers).
   • This makes it one-dimensional and uninteresting, which detracts from the hero's natural complexity and depth

My proposal: The giant frog from Pocket's case (that he ziplines with) shoots out its tongue, wrapping it around the targetted enemy hero and then pulling their soul inside Pocket's case, trapping it. While the hero's soul is trapped in the case they are more vulnerable to spirit damage, and if they die while under the ult's effect their soul is then captured by the case, granting pocket bonus stats in the form of a "captured soul" buff (stats are elaborated on later).


The Specifics:

• Damage/Stats + Enemy Debuffs:
  • Decreases the targetted enemy's spirit resistance by 35% OR grants Pocket a 35% spirit damage bonus aganist the target (numbers open to change)
  • 12 second enemy debuff duration
  • 15 second "captured soul" buff duration (if buff is temporary, read "Captured Souls Buffs" section for more info)
  • 80 second cooldown
  • "Captured soul" buffs are stackable and the duration is refreshed upon gaining a new stack/capturing a new soul
  • The ult effect cannot be removed by debuff remover (unstoppable works normally)
  • 30 metre casting range
  • The ult could have two casting methods: 1) A skillshot like Bebop hook (with 600 m/s velocity) or 2) A charging lock-on similar to Lash's ult (~1 second of charging for full a lock on)
  • (Optional) Applies a small tick of one damage per second over the ult duration which procs items (e.g., escalating exposure, mystic slow, etc.,)
  • (Optional) The targetted hero takes 150 damage upon having their soul removed (number open to change)

• Captured Souls Buffs (Bonuses Acquired by Capturing the Enemy's Soul):
  • I have discussed this ability with some members of the community and I am presenting 3 of the "captured soul" buff ideas they and I have come up with. Only ONE of these ideas would be implemented in the ability, I just couldn't choose one idea because they were all interesting and drasticaly differ in the way they change how Pocket interacts with fights and the game as a whole.
    1. Pocket temporarily gains increased spirit scaling on all their abilities (0.5 bonus spirit scaling on all abilities, 15 second duration - number open to change)
       • This would give even more depth to Pocket's playstyle, requiring them to selectively pick the best target for their ult so they can quickly get a kill and power-up for the fight
    2. Pocket permanently gains increased spirit scaling on all their abilities (0.05 bonus permanent spirit scaling on all abilities - number open to change)
       • This would provide Pocket a way to better scale into the late game (their spirit scaling is mediocre), and it would reward an active playstyle in the mid game
    3. Pocket temporarily gains increased spirit (60 bonus spirit, 15 second duration - number open to change)
       • Unlike the first idea this change would also buff items which have their own separate spirit scaling

• Perks/Upgrades:
  
  • Tier 1: +20 metre cast range
  • Tier 2: The trapped enemy explodes upon death, dealing 10% of its max hp as spirit damage in a 10 metre radius
  • Tier 3: Ultimate is refreshed upon capturing an enemy's soul

This is my ult rework proposal for Pocket. I feel that it better fits with the character's theme and design, and that it would provide more depth to how Pocket interacts with the game and team-fights as a whole. Additionally, by providing a way for pocket to scale from fights this rework would not only encourage and reward active gameplay, but it would also make him less of an ult bot in the late game.

 

[TokenNoob]

The idea behind Pocket's ult is to make it easier for your burst damage to kill an enemy. You notice how the ult can't do lethal damage. It's supposed to encourage you to use your other abilities to finish them off. Swapping that out for a single target ability, I can't help but see that as anything but a nerf

 

[Shpee]

The idea behind Pocket's ult is to make it easier for your burst damage to kill an enemy. You notice how the ult can't do lethal damage. It's supposed to encourage you to use your other abilities to finish them off. Swapping that out for a single target ability, I can't help but see that as anything but a nerf

I disagree, past a certain point in the game Pocket's current ult does not accomplish this purpose.
Past 30 minutes it is not uncommon to see enemy heroes build ~30% spirit resist or more against Pocket, which makes Pocket's ult (at t3) do less than 800 damage over the course of 18 seconds (after factoring in base regen, not just the number that shows up in sandbox). Additionally, the heal suppression at t2 does not completely negate healing, so with a modest 35k gold at 25 minutes (not hard to achieve) an Infernus can completely negate Affliction's damage by proccing Afterburn on only 1 target (and so can many other heroes that benefit from life-steal). In this scenario affliction becomes nothing more than a source of life-steal for Pocket.

Furthermore, it is not uncommon for people to buy debuff remover, which is it's own problem that I didn't feel was worth mentioning (but will now discuss). In lobbies where the enemy properly spaces and positions Pocket is probably only going to hit 3-4 people with their ult in the best scenario (esepcially after LoS changes). However, it is not uncommon for at least 2 of those 3-4 heroes to have a debuff remover, an item that completely negates Affliction (in some of my games, all 3-4 enemy heroes that would get hit had debuff remover). While I do like how the items in Deadlock allow players to answer a wide variety of problems, being able to counter Pocket's entire ult with one button press is problematic. Their ult is supposed to be a big teamfight ult that is super important to hit, but it can be easily negated by a 4k item, and Pocket has no counterplay to that whatsoever, especially since the cooldown of debuff remover is shorter than Affliction cooldown. Moreover, the other few heroes whose ults are countered by a button press with no potential counterplay also tend to scale extremely well into the late game (e.g., Haze), so having their ult countered by an item is not a huge blow to their impact as the game goes on, the damage provided by other abilities or their gun is more than enough to compensate. Pocket does not scale as well as those other heroes, and negating affliction can heavily limit their impact later on (prevents lifesteal, removes heal suppression, negates damage).

There's also the issue/discussion surrounding forcing the enemy to buy debuff remover, and how that itself is a high impact on the enemy's economy because they have to sink 4k gold on multiple heroes, but also how that kind of impact is bad design and blah, blah, blah, it's not really worth getting into and has been said time and time again.

Also, after playing one hundred games on Pocket the ult usage is too simple, the lack of decision making that comes with pressing 4 makes it kind of boring (as opposed to the plethora of decisions you can make on when you should cast case or cloak, and maneuvering into the best position to get all 4 barrage stacks on the enemy so that you can actually do damage in the fight).

Basically, Pocket's ult is only really valuable between the ~4-5 minute mark when you first scale it up until 30 minutes where the enemy can either outheal it or pick up a debuff remover. It does provide a lot of impact in that time, but after that it can be countered or ignored so easily which doesn't seem right for what's supposed to be a big teamfight/high impact ability.

 

[TokenNoob]

I disagree, past a certain point in the game Pocket's current ult does not accomplish this purpose.
Past 30 minutes it is not uncommon to see enemy heroes build ~30% spirit resist or more against Pocket, which makes Pocket's ult (at t3) do less than 800 damage over the course of 18 seconds (after factoring in base regen, not just the number that shows up in sandbox). Additionally, the heal suppression at t2 does not completely negate healing, so with a modest 35k gold at 25 minutes (not hard to achieve) an Infernus can completely negate Affliction's damage by proccing Afterburn on only 1 target (and so can many other heroes that benefit from life-steal). In this scenario affliction becomes nothing more than a source of life-steal for Pocket.

Furthermore, it is not uncommon for people to buy debuff remover, which is it's own problem that I didn't feel was worth mentioning (but will now discuss). In lobbies where the enemy properly spaces and positions Pocket is probably only going to hit 3-4 people with their ult in the best scenario (esepcially after LoS changes). However, it is not uncommon for at least 2 of those 3-4 heroes to have a debuff remover, an item that completely negates Affliction (in some of my games, all 3-4 enemy heroes that would get hit had debuff remover). While I do like how the items in Deadlock allow players to answer a wide variety of problems, being able to counter Pocket's entire ult with one button press is problematic. Their ult is supposed to be a big teamfight ult that is super important to hit, but it can be easily negated by a 4k item, and Pocket has no counterplay to that whatsoever, especially since the cooldown of debuff remover is shorter than Affliction cooldown. Moreover, the other few heroes whose ults are countered by a button press with no potential counterplay also tend to scale extremely well into the late game (e.g., Haze), so having their ult countered by an item is not a huge blow to their impact as the game goes on, the damage provided by other abilities or their gun is more than enough to compensate. Pocket does not scale as well as those other heroes, and negating affliction can heavily limit their impact later on (prevents lifesteal, removes heal suppression, negates damage).

There's also the issue/discussion surrounding forcing the enemy to buy debuff remover, and how that itself is a high impact on the enemy's economy because they have to sink 4k gold on multiple heroes, but also how that kind of impact is bad design and blah, blah, blah, it's not really worth getting into and has been said time and time again.

Also, after playing one hundred games on Pocket the ult usage is too simple, the lack of decision making that comes with pressing 4 makes it kind of boring (as opposed to the plethora of decisions you can make on when you should cast case or cloak, and maneuvering into the best position to get all 4 barrage stacks on the enemy so that you can actually do damage in the fight).

Basically, Pocket's ult is only really valuable between the ~4-5 minute mark when you first scale it up until 30 minutes where the enemy can either outheal it or pick up a debuff remover. It does provide a lot of impact in that time, but after that it can be countered or ignored so easily which doesn't seem right for what's supposed to be a big teamfight/high impact ability.

I hear you. I do. But I personally enjoy the ult. I feel the solution lies in improving the ult rather than replacing it altogether

 

[Shpee]

I hear you. I do. But I personally enjoy the ult. I feel the solution lies in improving the ult rather than replacing it altogether

You make a fair point, and I am glad you enjoy the current ult, but it would be nice to experiment with new abilities that explore new directions with the heroes (the game is in alpha, after all). Who knows, they might rework the ability into something we both absolutely love, or update the current version into an equally enjoyable state. Even if they don't rework the ult, I hope this thread at least highlights some of the current problems with Affliction, and I hope the feedback is considered when the devs make future patches.

 

[areisul1]

Nah, I heavily disagree. I love Pocket's ult and I do not think it should change. Saying it's bad just because there are items that can counter it is silly -- a lot of abilities have counters and not having counters would make the game dreadful.

 

[Shpee]

Nah, I heavily disagree. I love Pocket's ult and I do not think it should change. Saying it's bad just because there are items that can counter it is silly -- a lot of abilities have counters and not having counters would make the game dreadful.

I am glad that you enjoy Pocket's current ult, but I just want to clear a few things up.

I have not said that Pocket's ult is bad, just that it has some issues that are significant enough that they should be considered/looked at. I think it is quite impactful pre 30 minutes.

Moreover, if I did not make it already clear, I really enjoy how Deadlock allows you to buy items that can answer a specific issue you may have (from locking down a very mobile champ with slowing hex, to dodging burst with ethereal shift). However, I feel as though debuff remover counters Pocket's ult in a way that is disproportionate to how other items may counter other hero's ults. I already mentioned that other heroes that have easily counterable ults tend to scale very well and don't depend on their ults that much (e.g., haze, infernus, etc.,) but even with a hero like haze her ult is not completely negated with a counter item like metal skin. Bullet dance can still proc items (e.g., silencer) and build Fixation stacks. Additionally, if her ult is necessary for bursting down the enemy MVP she can build curse to prevent them from using metal skin, so she has some counterplay available to her, whereas Pocket can't really counterplay debuff remover and also relies on their ult more than Haze relies on her's.

Furthermore, other strong ults that are countered by a single item, such as Dynamo's Blackhole or Mo & Krill's Combo vs Unstoppable, require you to be aware of your surroundings/to be on guard, and have a good reaction time to (for example) pre-activate unstoppable as soon as Mo & Krill is in Phantom Strike range. Because Pocket's ult has low dps but a very long duration the enemy could wait 3 whole seconds after being ulted before they pop debuff remover, and it would be as if they never got hit by it in the first place (a natural consequence of its current design).

P.S. I don't want to give off the impression that I am being overly defensive of my idea, this thread was also made with the intention to open up a discussion on affliction (and I am thankful to those that have replied, I have enjoyed hearing everyone's thoughts!)