Item that allows souls to auto collect on ability kills

BreadyBready

New member
Abilities feel bad to use on creep waves.
It's probably not really intended to get CS, but I think an item with a passive cooldown to auto claim souls gained for last hits could be handy.

I played a game as Dynamo in a solo lane against Haze. Haze is one of the best at getting last hits (imo) and it was a real struggle to contest her last hits. And in a duo lane against her and another hero it's borderline impossible to get souls from creeps.

I know mele can auto claim souls, but I got zoned pretty hard. Having an item that could allow me to get a few guaranteed souls every minute could really help out players who take more of a support/ability build. It would also add a bit more complexity to ability use. Do I use my cooldowns to harass and secure kills or clear waves and collect souls?

Curious to hear what other people think of this idea.
 
...thats kinda genius, i like it.


i wonder if it should be a 1250 item, so it effects the tail end of laning in the same way that active reload does

if it was a 500 item, i feel like it would be too oppressive, and would warp the early game around it.
 
oops I just made a thread on pretty much the same idea lol

I think it would fit really well with other cheap items like Monster Rounds, which are obviously not the ideal thing to buy in most games, but can be helpful if you're getting pressured into awkward positions early on :)
 
oops I just made a thread on pretty much the same idea lol

I think it would fit really well with other cheap items like Monster Rounds, which are obviously not the ideal thing to buy in most games, but can be helpful if you're getting pressured into awkward positions early on :)
could you link to that thread? This is actually a good idea not only for abilities but shooting too, maybe it's just kinda strong and should be a higher tier item.
 
Well, part of the early and mid-game is all about securing and stealing souls wherever possible, so making something NOT have the opportunity to secure souls is... well... not optimal for gameplay. Instead, how about this?

Soulgrip - 500 cost Vitality item
+1 HP/s Regen
+100 Max Health
PASSIVE
Souls that are created by you through the killing (or assisting) of an enemy minion take 33% less time to claim passively, and travel 25% faster.

(basically just makes your enemy have LESS CHANCE to secure a soul, as opposed to no chance)
 
Well, part of the early and mid-game is all about securing and stealing souls wherever possible, so making something NOT have the opportunity to secure souls is... well... not optimal for gameplay. Instead, how about this?

Soulgrip - 500 cost Vitality item
+1 HP/s Regen
+100 Max Health
PASSIVE
Souls that are created by you through the killing (or assisting) of an enemy minion take 33% less time to claim passively, and travel 25% faster.

(basically just makes your enemy have LESS CHANCE to secure a soul, as opposed to no chance)
I don't think this would be very useful in the situation that you'd want to buy an item like this in

you'd only really need the item if you're getting pressured and losing control of the space in the lane to a point where most of your souls are getting denied and you can't step up to stop them, so making the orbs move faster or not last as long wouldn't help much since the enemy is still free to deny them anyway with their stronger position- it could even make it harder for you to secure your own orbs if you have to aim at a faster moving target
 
Don't agree with this at all. While it's annoying to be harassed early, that's also the point too, for people to deny you souls. They're whole playstyle would be moot if you throw an AoE ability and collect nearly the whole wave safely. Making soul generation easier is a very slippery slope that you shouldn't want in an already snowball-heavy alpha game.

It's supposed to be a give/take with laning, and if you choose to use an ability to try and more easily farm, then the risk is that they might deny them too. Instead of having such a good early item, you should instead want certain broken champions such as Infernus to not be able to harass you so easily, but that's a different thread.
 
Don't agree with this at all. While it's annoying to be harassed early, that's also the point too, for people to deny you souls. They're whole playstyle would be moot if you throw an AoE ability and collect nearly the whole wave safely. Making soul generation easier is a very slippery slope that you shouldn't want in an already snowball-heavy alpha game.

It's supposed to be a give/take with laning, and if you choose to use an ability to try and more easily farm, then the risk is that they might deny them too. Instead of having such a good early item, you should instead want certain broken champions such as Infernus to not be able to harass you so easily, but that's a different thread.
what matty says!

Making laning 'safer' isn't the point. In MOBAS, the point is to PREVENT snowballing by any means possible through SKILL, not 'buy x item'. Lategame teamfights are definitely about itemization, but that's AFTER the early-midgame avalanche competition is over and neither team has a 20k+ lead.
 
Don't agree with this at all. While it's annoying to be harassed early, that's also the point too, for people to deny you souls. They're whole playstyle would be moot if you throw an AoE ability and collect nearly the whole wave safely. Making soul generation easier is a very slippery slope that you shouldn't want in an already snowball-heavy alpha game.

It's supposed to be a give/take with laning, and if you choose to use an ability to try and more easily farm, then the risk is that they might deny them too. Instead of having such a good early item, you should instead want certain broken champions such as Infernus to not be able to harass you so easily, but that's a different thread.
something to keep in mind is that this item probably wouldn't stop someone from falling behind or completely negate them getting pressured in their lane etc.
in fact, buying an item like this instead of putting souls towards something that could boost your stats in a more meaningful way would almost never be ideal and would usually cause them to fall further behind in some capacity
it could occupy a similar role to other early items like Monster Rounds, Healing Rite and Reactive Barrier-
those aren't items that you would want to buy on most heroes when there's items with better stats available for the same price, but they're still useful options if you get forced into a certain situation in the lane
:)
 
something to keep in mind is that this item probably wouldn't stop someone from falling behind or completely negate them getting pressured in their lane etc.
in fact, buying an item like this instead of putting souls towards something that could boost your stats in a more meaningful way would almost never be ideal and would usually cause them to fall further behind in some capacity
it could occupy a similar role to other early items like Monster Rounds, Healing Rite and Reactive Barrier-
those aren't items that you would want to buy on most heroes when there's items with better stats available for the same price, but they're still useful options if you get forced into a certain situation in the lane
:)
Counterpoint... first thing-

this item probably wouldn't stop someone from falling behind or completely negate them getting pressured in their lane
Your minions spawn at the same rate as their minions do. Whether you're pushed to your guardian or you're pushing to their guardian is only subjective in the amount of damage each guardian takes; otherwise, there's the SAME AMOUNT OF SOULS YOU CAN GET FROM SECURES OR DENIES.

in fact, buying an item like this instead of putting souls towards something that could boost your stats in a more meaningful way would almost never be ideal
Tradeoff. If you suck at securing souls, make them harder to secure for your enemy. If you secure them instantly outright, then that just becomes actually unfair to the enemy; if they have the higher skill level TO deny your souls, they should be able to. More skill should always beat less skill; it's how labor markets in economics should be as well, though we know how crony oligopolies have become (but that's a political discussion I'll refrain from in this forum.)

Point is, it can also get better stats as well. Maybe +2 HP/s, which is a good chunk of regen compared to other early-game items; and very few items provide even 100 HP in the early game; that's almost +20% HP on base/beginning units.

it could occupy a similar role to other early items like Monster Rounds, Healing Rite and Reactive Barrier-
MR doesn't help in securing souls, it only provides minor clearing and defense potential. Realistically, it just makes it easier to pursue ENEMY HEROES through their own troops because you take less damage to the troops and therefore have more health to engage the ENEMY HERO with. As well, so what if you kill a minion faster or with less shots? Enemy steals your souls, and it's half gone anyway. Same problem above, you CAN'T just outright instant-deny a chance, as that doesn't allow skill to flourish. The increased speed and decreased timer at the sacrifice of spending souls on that item is exactly the same as the ultimately weaker stats from MR which is ALSO horrible past your first walker.

HR pretty much requires you to be out of an engagement, as one damage from an enemy hero and poof! Healing gone. It is also slow and requires you to be out of combat for 10-15 seconds or so. So, when you do kill a person in your lane, you'll STILL have to retreat as their respawn and zipline time could cut your healing short if they hit you before the end of it. Skill-based item; sacrifice combat and lane for the need to not go back to base... and if you killed the enemy at your guardian it's only a second or two slower to return to base and NOT waste the money on HR.

RB is conditional based on the unit you're fighting; so I don't get what that has to do with souls. It is a good counter item though; and it does address your point. Just, insta-securing souls isn't the same as preventing stunlock characters from getting the significant upper hand.

still useful options if you get forced into a certain situation in the lane
Want to know what else is useful in certain situations in the lane?
1. Backing up.
2. Asking to swap with a teammate.
3. Focusing less on damaging the enemy and instead focus on hitting their souls.
4. Staying on high-ground and staying away from the enemy as much as possible.
5. Don't panic if you get hit. If you're low, retreat and let them get some ground.
6. If you can't push, hide behind your guardian and secure/deny souls from there.
7. Getting ganked? Just give up the lane, and either farm boxes that have probably spawned around the map or try a hand at some T2 jungles or soul slots. Losing a guardian and even a walker at minute 10 isn't the end of the world. Being 20k points as a team behind their team at minute 10 is probably the end of the world.

Not a single one of these requires an item to secure souls. In fact, many just tell you to leave or not care about fighting. Will your stats be a bit lower? Yes. Will you be safer and compensate for the lack of skill necessary to consistently hit headshots and pursue opponents? Also yes.
 
Long post mentioned... Click to see reply.
TL;DR - Insta-secures as a passive or even as an active is a risky thing to do. Lowering the skill ceiling for highly competitive players leads to less fun experiences. If you're in an awkward position, secure souls elsewhere or change your focus in your lane; or just drop it altogether. Especially with abilities, instant-securing souls would be extra scary as multihitting and even higher damage would trivialise creep waves, unless you're in a stage where it's useless anyway, making the item need to be cheap enough to be a must-pick, or expensive enough to never be used.
 
Back
Top