does lash deal too much damage?
- Thread starter boomerfueled123
- Start date
thehourofcode123
Member
As much as I understand those numbers are damage dealt before any armor reduces it.
Maybe he had full 20 stack of EE
Deadcel
Member
Others have pointed it out but that looks like a replay bug because Infernus at that farm at that stage of the game does not have a healthpool that huge.
However to explain why Lash bursts is another thing.
While this Lash build is heavy on burst it can easily fall off in longer games where gun builds reign supreme.
However to explain why Lash bursts is another thing.
- His [1] skill scales well when maxed out depending on the distance it travels, gaining a lot if it's 25 meters. He is doing it from max distance here.
- He is also pure spirit build with almost no gun items.
- He has Mystic Vulnerability which reduces spirit resistance by 12% and
- Mystic Burst that does 9% of enemy health as damage.
- As soon as he lands he also procs Cold Front for additional burst.
- He also shoots Infernus with Mystic Shot an item that scales well with Spirit but is wasted if you miss.
- He has 89 spirit which is a lot at this stage of the game so he is a one shot wonder with not much gun damage to follow up.
While this Lash build is heavy on burst it can easily fall off in longer games where gun builds reign supreme.
sam.louro.monteiro
Active member
he has both flog and groundpound maxed and hits t3 flog coldfront mystic shot on someone wilth mystic vul. the numbers seam off but probably a replay bug. in sandbox with more power its hard to get those numbers, like more than 3x power of this.
this is very fine, very limited to where you are to get hit and his damage is so situational, spirit armour owns burst builds, what is strong is things like infernus afterburn making it so he has mixed sustained damage.
this is very fine, very limited to where you are to get hit and his damage is so situational, spirit armour owns burst builds, what is strong is things like infernus afterburn making it so he has mixed sustained damage.
Azmosam
New member
Lash probably does too much damage for how useful his kit is. In a game that rewards mobility, why give a hero with some of the best mobility in the game also one of the best ultimates, and one of the highest damaging abilities to go along with it? I just feel like he does too much.
sam.louro.monteiro
Active member
because everything he does is extremely conditional. his ult is good, but can be stuned los or ranged. literally compare wraith ult to lash why would you pick lash? drop insane dps by casting it, multiple ways to interact. inside buildings how can lash work? pretty mcuh doesnt does he? he can cast the spells buts its nothing to clap at.
There is a potential for him to pick an entire team and do about 60% their hp? yes how likely are you to do that? tbh on last defense when people are all in to end the game you might, i have done it several times but that's literally the most open arena where they have a hard time to los you and you get to use the fountain for extra damage. that's 1 spot on the map where its amazing. if you consider an ult broken, always compare it to wraith and then really think about it.
Deadcel
Member
I couldn't disagree more. His mobility skill needs extra charges and the only reason it's good is because it resets his dashes. To sustain increased flight you have to commit to improved stamina and extra charges, neither of which gives you the improved burst that you mention. Most Lash players use zipline speed to gain massive amounts of distance an ability anyone can learn. I believe that most Lash players learn movement skills other ignore, because it's so vital to his build. In a closed off environment Lash's [1] deals almost no damage and his movement does nothing.
His ultimate also has a very narrow window without more item investment and can be completely dodged by either going under a roof, behind a corner or using an ability that has dodge built in. Not only that a simple Warp Stone away and he can no longer grab you. Only later on in the game once he has all the expensive utility (range, cooldown, extra charges etc.) does his ultimate shine.
When pushing enemies can simple stand behind a glass to avoid his ultimate. In higher ranked games people buy knockdown just to counter him out of the sky. Many Lash players don't pick unstoppable because they are starved for items to build up their burst and mobility.
Lash can't even apply usually core spirit items such as Soul Shredder Bullets or Mystic Vulnerability efficiently, because for his main attack -- the ground strike -- to work, he has to be unseen, otherwise enemies can easily spread out and dodge it, and it can be inconvenient to attempt to aim and shoot while trying to set up a ground strike, even if you are sure the enemy can't escape. This alone makes him fall off harder than usual in the late game.
boomerfueled123
New member
26256699 sorry for being a week late to this, lol
7_chicken
New member
well, theres our answer, case closed! make a silly build, take silly damage!
lash is never be able to normally push this much damage at any stage in the game. i would place him as one of the most balanced heroes currently
Could it be that Infernus made a bad play and sat under the walker for a long time, and was low on health? No its the Lash that's op!
Geneva
Member
This clip was posted by the Lash player, I don't think "does lash deal too much damage?" was a genuine question.
sam.louro.monteiro
Active member
you can argue that what you are doing in game is unfair. It can be gloating but its more often less emotional driven than if it was the infernus posting, if it was him.
For instance, I really feel that facing or playing wraith is not an interactive experience. having this much sustained damaged with some decent burst ( it pushes lethal) and have an ult that makes you think why would you play lash when she doesnt look at you and you get tagged and stunned through wall and my favourite character, Lash, is very conditional where enemy can stun/los/range it, which is fine btw you can play vs a pretty insane displacement tool but reliability is king as always and i press button your entire team goes in the air so they can't peel me or my team of who ever i opened on. Its not chronosphere, you can unstopable i know, but it feels like chronosphere.
Geneva
Member
Wraith's and Lash's ults have different strengths and weaknesses that makes each of them better in different situations. The main weakness Telekinesis has that Death Slam doesn't is the travel time of the projectile before the enemy is stunned. The best way to counter Wraith after being ulted by her is to run away from her and behind cover. If you can get yourself into a doorframe, she will have to run further than you did before she can headshot you. The projectile travel time also allows groups of enemies to spread out, whereas Death Slam displaces all enemies caught into wherever Lash throws them.
Both ults are incredibly strong, and both can be incredibly frustrating to deal with, but neither does the same job as the other.
sam.louro.monteiro
Active member
I am very aware of what they do but the fact wraith's aoe is around her you are not her target. so you can either run if you think you are and the person she is nearly to melee range doesn't really have time to run and regardless who she is after your team has a hard time to stop it as everyone gets stuned (even after the stun the time you take to drop is still limiting your movement. Yes Lash ult has the higher ceiling potentially but its a fuck ton less reliable, as well as his kit ( as mostly mentioned by everyone how his kit doesn't function indoors). One thing that becomes just standard in competitive games, is reliability, you can get the juiciest combo, but if something that's near fail proof gets the job done why are you shooting to the moon? do the highest win rate play. is that less fun? most certainly but that's what happens, point and click stun is better than aimed or skill shot one. In dota and smite, less in league, there are harder to hit with bigger wind up abilities that either require you to hit another ability for th epay off or require your team assistance like Lina leshrac scylla or ra. their cc or big damage ults have a long predictable windup but if you apply a strong slow, or a root/cripple or anything that allows you to hit suddently its a death pair that can kill anyone on the map. For dota, pairing single target stuns with slow wind up ones was common as back in the day lina lesh didn't always have gold for an euls to reliably guaranty their abilities to land. turns out when such items are very affordable, some buffs to delays even mobility creep didn't stop these characters in all games to become good because once the unreliable and skill intensive mechanics become reliable through player skill or combos, well it becomes just better than anything else.
that won't stop the effect from happening. I know how to avoid eating as much shit from it but i will still get some because doing the same movement againts a lash grants me at worst, dps loss. and now enemy has a character without an pick/teamfight ultimate ability. and if a wraith catches a frame of you by holding ult it goes off. You get hit.
Is getting hit by lash ult much more punishing? yes, without a doubt. are there 3 ways to avoid lash ult to happen after cast? yesm abd they don't require items. Aree there any for wraith? yes as well, if you are (as of now) one of 7 with immunities in their kit or if you buy shift or unstopable. is it a reasonable ask to get unstopable or shift to stop an ult tat is not aimed at you? no, not at all.
The issue with wraith ult is not what it does to who she is targetting but to everyone else that is in LoS. if i have an immunity like ivy or dynamo i will use it to buy time, save anyone i can or myself. But those are niche cases where i can try and fight it. The cast time has been increased and you can feel it but its nowhere near how much you become a target or are stopping damage compared to lash.
Lash ult is really REALLY not good. It can be game winning, but again look at all the other stun ults in the game and think i have to play around perfect positioning and angles to get the cc off, or i can fight you anywhere (even abrams can ult in buildings and hit you downstairs after your turned). Lash is one of my most played and its extremely fun and i don't really want to make his ult stop having counterplay, i just wished wraith with how much damage she has on her kit, safety and utility didn't have an ultimate that over shadows lashes. Thankfully as i also play mo i am on the other side of the coin where it makes little sense why doesnt it pick me off the ground, i can outrun it but if i get hit and lose speed, so they managed to hit someoen at ~22m/s that has the tiniest hitbox then i should get hit.
