Banned items and signature items.

[barlakopofai]

Essentially, the idea is that certain items can be removed from a character's shop, and replaced with a unique variant that's exclusive to them. For example, Spirit Burn (pretend I'm saying this before the nerf) being a banned item on Mina, and being replaced with her own version of it that's balanced for her stats. This would help a bit with not balancing every item around the outlier, like for example, if you wanted to add an item that creates a damaging trail behind you, it would immediately become way too strong on Infernus, and you would have to nerf that item, unless the item was not something he could buy. This mechanic is already in the game, technically, Vindicta cannot buy Lightning Scroll, so it would be neat if it was expanded into an actual game mechanic.

So, here comes the second part of the idea, signature items, which are essentially like Aghanim's. The idea with them being that they are unique items that enable a specific playstyle on the character that's been removed because it's a pain in the ass to balance. For example, one of Sinclair's signature items could enable gun builds on him but also cost enough that he can't buy it in lane to simply bully the enemy team out of the lane. Similarly, lash's signature item would enable a hybrid gun/spirit build, so that he's no longer pigeonholed into only ever being the stomp guy, but also without giving him a good laning phase. And these items would be there in place of banned items. It could also have lore implications, with the patrons making concessions with each other to specifically fuck over that one guy regardless of who gets him.

 

[Fred_]

I don't see the point in the banned items idea, it is way too complex for a shop/item system that I think is almost perfect.
I would rather have heroes have access to all items and not have specific heroes have access to some special ones and other not. This would also be a rather bad band-aid fix for items where instead of balancing them for everyone you just say screw it and ban them for specific heroes to play.

The only time some items shouldn't be available for heroes is if that item primarily affects a stat or mechanic that a hero doesn't have available to them (ex.: ability charge items).

As for the signature items I feel like the idea itself is very open-ended in how it could be executed. There's a forum post for hero specific items (Blue hero Items thread) that give heroes unique effects tailor made for their kit (Fan of this one but I know some people aren't). There's also the more accepted and (DOTA2) tested idea of an aghanim's scepter type of item which would unlock special effects for a hero and that's also cool.

And back to your own suggestion of signature items I don't really think it should only be for enabling builds, the idea is interesting but signature items should imo be more tied to a hero's kit and recommended playstyle than enabling an alternate playstyle entirely. The big downside here and why I think this wouldn't work is the fact that you get it later in the game, you are basically crippling yourself with a build that doesn't fit your hero until you can get your big shining item that changes everything. Also I don't understand why this type of item would be an item in the first place and not just be a balance thing for heroes, if you want Lash or Sinclair to be more viable with gun just balance them to be like that instead of requiring an item and a rather weird system to make it work.

And lastly a personal opinion, but I also think not all heroes should be jack of all trades. Some have a variety of playstyles they can go with like McGinnis or Ivy but others have more limited but still with a little variety like Lash (you can go for Strike, Flog, Support is also kinda possible or Ult build).

 

[barlakopofai]

Your vision for how the game should be is very stale and would result in the game dying relatively quickly after launch. If Agh's upgrades just made the good ability even better, like it does for some of them, it would result in a very boring meta that centers entirely around rushing agh's, which then revolves around balancing the character around having agh's, which, again, has already happened for a few characters like Kunkka, which makes them completely unplayable outside of a competitive setting or the one specific build. If every character is Razor/Dragon Knight, why would people keep playing? For the new hero releases? Has Valve ever been a company that releases new content to keep a game alive? It's already a criticism of the game that build variety is being heavily limited by the balancing and we're not even out of the beta.

 

[gibnewitems]

Straight up item bans are inferior to just... nerfing the hero or item. Hell, even wide buffs to the alternatives ends up as a far better solution than arbitrary restrictions on what you can build.

I've said this countless times with the monthly Agh's suggestion that get's post: fun, but still a little too early to add into the game yet. It seems more like something that would get added further into the future of post-release Deadlock as a headliner for a major update.

 

[barlakopofai]

Well that's why the idea is not to ban the item entirely, just to replace it with an item that's exclusive to that character which can have its own balance decisions without fucking over all the other characters who now simply won't buy that item because it has been balanced around the one outlier who makes it basically useless for everyone else. Imagine they nerf scourge because Victor keeps using it even though scourge is just *fine* on anyone else who buys it.

I feel like you didn't read the suggestion and just assumed it was like the other people who say some characters just shouldn't buy specific items.

 

[MasterSpider5]

I think this is overly complicated and not really in line with deadlocks vision

 

[barlakopofai]

I think this is overly complicated and not really in line with deadlocks vision

A famously simple and straightforward game.