𝐖𝐚𝐭𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐫 - 1k upgrade item (flower)
- Thread starter Vofi
- Start date
steventheeven3
New member
and what does mark do? give vision of them on the map?
Based on the context, pretty much. Maybe you could even make it show enemies through walls.
micbenso66
Member
OH a ward item. I think we need this and this seems like a good way to do it. Semi support item. Not sure if monster round is the best one to put it on but also, I would like a more dedicated jungle roll too. So I really like this idea as a whole
micbenso66
Member
No, wards only ever give field of view vision and its the players job to place them in the right spot to get maximum vision.
People don't like wards in dota, because your support now has to deward(spend time getting a sentry and then guessing where the wards are). While not dewarded they stay for 5 mins and give MASSIVE amount of info. And there is no other way to deal with wards. Since this has 150 hp, I think it can be killed by anyone, i don't see this as a problem.
micbenso66
Member
Sure, but mobas are won with knowledge. There needs to be a way to obtain vision of what the enemy is doing without guessing so that you can react faster to different types of plays.
If we make wards like LoL where everyone gets them automatically, or its attached to a universal item that anyone can would buy it would be less burdensome as the Dota version.
The LoL version is great. If we do both, and have it so everyone gets 1 rechargeable one and then there is a support item someone can choose to get that increases the wards charges this would help with the information/vision war.
That being said, there really isnt enough neutral objectives on the map right now so the wards only purpose would be for spying on enemy side of map or watching mid.
I meant that MARKED enemies(the ones the ward curently sees) can be seen by YOU through walls.
micbenso66
Member
like once pinged by the flower they are literally putting mirages vision mark on them for a couple seconds? I can see that being ok but also devalues mirages mark ability which is already lack luster when it comes to vision.
If they added this, the mark should last no more than 2 seconds after leaving field of view and they should probably buff mirages vision some how. Probably make its duration scale with spirit or something.
This will reward players that pay attention to their surroundings. Also maybe make the flower give Souls? Not a lot, like McGinnis turrets.
I think i missunderstood what "mark enemies" by the thread author was supposed to mean. I thought it only shows them on the map while in the flowers FOV, and proposed to make it also show enemies through walls(while they are in the flowers FOV their red outline can be seen). And i don`t think mirrages vission on mark is the point of the ability, more like a little bonus on top which can help you find a target that tries to hide from you(i found players using it a few times).
Also a possible look for the flower(just some cosmetic from dota)
The second one without the frog, and the first one with some more leaves on the bottom.
They could even use them as placeholders while creating normal models(i am pretty sure Sinclairs rabbit hex is just a Dota 2 courier)
The second one without the frog, and the first one with some more leaves on the bottom.
They could even use them as placeholders while creating normal models(i am pretty sure Sinclairs rabbit hex is just a Dota 2 courier)
gibnewitems
Active member
this isn't a top-down moba. there's no fog of war. there's zero reason why this game needs wards.
There are still walls, which there are none in mobas )
Rosgath
Active member
There are "walls" in Top down MOBAs but they are usually done on the form of trees or cliffs. There are a few things that makes wards unnecessary in Deadlock.
1.) player footfalls make sound. This will key you in to people you can't actually see without the need for additional vision. If you learn each heroes' sounds, it can even tell you who is where. This isn't a thing in other MOBAs.
2.) There are transparent walls all around (besides the veils). For instance, the T2 camp near Blue lane which goes into a 3 story building (I think it's blue anyway. It has a Sinner's Sacrifice on the second floor) has windows that show people inside.
3.) The map shows Jungle icons that are available and you can track where enemy heroes are if one of those Icons disappears while no teammates are around.
There are a lot of ways to track the enemy team without needing something like wards. Maybe another shooter MOBA would need them, but with the glut of information available to players, I don't think Deadlock does. I think this suggestion comes from a place of simply not understanding all the ways you can gather info about where enemies are without actually seeing them.
To be honest, i forgot about trees in dota XD. 4k hours is aparently not enough. Still i think that wards in deadlock will be good, you can place them in underground tunnels to track hero movement. And with a ward(for example on you jungle creeps) you can now see WHICH enemy in there before he starts to farm, see how much HP he he has and maybe decide to gank him, this will be better than just hearing him, since you are not limited by range(you can go to tp, use your abilities and items to get there fast enough). Maybe not now, but if they decide to expand the map in the future, wards will be a must to track down enemy movement.
Rosgath
Active member
I honestly don't think the map is big enough to justify Wards either.
If you know how to do rotations off of ziplines, it's entirely possible to be almost anywhere within a quadrant of the map you are in within 10-15 seconds (I need to practice to be more consistent at it, but I've managed to get some perfect rotations where I swapped from an outer lane to an inner lane and vice versa in 10 seconds or less). It's only about 20-30 seconds to switch to the furthest points under your team control in most cases.
I can understand wanting some form of vision for the underground tunnels, but I think they don't have vision there on purpose. They are supposed to be juke points, just like the dead end hidey closets that are all around.
Like you said though, maybe if the map were expanded Wards or some form of vision management would be a good add, but I don't think the game needs it.
If you know how to do rotations off of ziplines, it's entirely possible to be almost anywhere within a quadrant of the map you are in within 10-15 seconds (I need to practice to be more consistent at it, but I've managed to get some perfect rotations where I swapped from an outer lane to an inner lane and vice versa in 10 seconds or less). It's only about 20-30 seconds to switch to the furthest points under your team control in most cases.
I can understand wanting some form of vision for the underground tunnels, but I think they don't have vision there on purpose. They are supposed to be juke points, just like the dead end hidey closets that are all around.
Like you said though, maybe if the map were expanded Wards or some form of vision management would be a good add, but I don't think the game needs it.
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